像哈佛這樣的美國大學，為成千上萬的外國學生提供服務，這合理嗎？為什么美國大學不關心美國學生

Shane Ryoo
Is it appropriate for US universities, like Harvard, to be catering to thousands of foreigners?
Yes. We charge them for the privilege. For a university like Harvard, it’s a crapload of money per undergrad student.
Why don’t American universities care about American students?
They do. If the American students can hack it. Which most of them can’t.
The U.S. is less than 5% of the world population, and it’s definitely subpar when it comes to valuing education and facts. The bulk of smart, intelligent, and driven people were born somewhere else.
I was a workaholic genius growing up in middle America. But in world-level tech ability, I’m nothing special. As a natural born American, I was in the minority in graduate school and in elite academia (of which I was mediocre at best). The U.S. is better off convincing foreigners to change their nationalities, as it’s done for over 200 years.

像哈佛這樣的美國大學是否應該為成千上萬的外國學生提供服務？
是的。我們向留學生收取了高額學費。對于哈佛這樣的大學來說，每個國際本科生帶來的收入是非常可觀的。
為什么美國大學不關心美國學生？
它們是關心的，只要美國學生能達到入學標準。但大多數(shù)美國人達不到。
美國人口還不到世界人口的5%，而在重視教育和事實方面確實表現(xiàn)不佳。世界上最聰明、最有才華、最有動力的人大多出生在美國以外的地方。
我在美國中部長大，是個工作狂型的天才少年。但在世界級的技術能力方面，我并不特別。作為一個土生土長的美國人，我在研究生院和精英學術圈里都是少數(shù)派。美國過去200多年來之所以強大，是因為它成功吸引了大量外國人改變國籍來到這里。

Sheepard
US education is a big US export item. Trump wanted to increase US export to restore trade balance. So why on earth would he want to kill one of the important export industry?
Also, it attracts the smartest people from around the world, who end up creating new ideas (innovation, businesses) for America. A large portion of the US economy (and many-many inventions and technologies) are directly related to foreign people working or learning at US universities. My country of origin is very proud of how many inventors and Nobel prize winners are from there. Pretty much all of them got it while researching at US universities, and benefiting the US. The US got great and powerful largely because of this brain-drain, which Trump is reversing.
I hope you like the idea of China becoming the world leading power in technology, while the US is left behind.

美國的教育是一個重要的出口產(chǎn)業(yè)。特朗普曾希望增加美國出口以恢復貿(mào)易平衡。那他為何要扼殺這樣一個關鍵的出口行業(yè)呢？
此外，美國大學吸引了世界各地最聰明的人，他們在學習期間為美國提供了新的想法、創(chuàng)新點和企業(yè)。美國經(jīng)濟的很大一部分（以及無數(shù)發(fā)明和技術）都直接與在美留學或工作的外國人有關。我的祖國視本土發(fā)明家和諾貝爾獎得主的人數(shù)，引以為傲——而這些人幾乎全是在美國大學研究期間獲得這些成就并反過來造福美國的。美國之所以變得強大，很大程度上正是因為這種“人才吸引效應”，而特朗普正在逆轉這一趨勢。
我希望你能接受中國成為世界首屈一指的科技領先大國，而美國被甩在后面的未來。

Aj. Raymond James Ritchie
Go to a weekly seminar at Cornell or similar university and look at the audience. Scientific research and R&D is for all practical purposes entirely dependent on foreign Masters and PhD students and post-docs. It is not by choice, it is because of the talent available.
Go to a highschool science class in the USA or look at a textbook. The poor bastards are not getting anything like the science and maths required for a career in STEM. Even worse there is no-one to tell them without risking their job.
I spent 5ys as a post-doc in the USA.
If you do not like what I am saying just go and see what is going on and has been going on for decades.

去康奈爾大學或其他類似大學參加一次每周的研討會，看看聽眾是誰。實際上，美國的科研和研發(fā)已經(jīng)完全依賴外國的碩士生、博士生和博士后研究人員。這不是出于選擇，而是因為本地缺乏相應的人才。
去看看美國高中的科學課或者他們的課本吧。這些孩子根本沒學到從事STEM職業(yè)所需的科學和數(shù)學知識。更糟的是，沒人敢告訴他們這些真相，否則可能會丟掉飯碗。
我曾在美做過五年的博士后研究。
如果你不喜歡我說的話，那就親自去看看實際情況吧——這一切已經(jīng)持續(xù)了幾十年。

Agnes Kurzaj
It's not abaut catering to anyone it's about atracting the best and the brightest.
Harvard is very hard to get into. There is a tremendous competition. For one you have to have pretty much straight A’s and a GPA of at least 4.2 then you have to write your SATS and do well in that.

這并不是關于迎合任何人的問題，而是關于吸引最優(yōu)秀、最聰明的人才的問題。

International students for one pay more in tuition than their American classmates. It amounts to about $86.705 a year totaling around $346.820 for a four year undergraduate degree.

哈佛大學很難進。競爭極其激烈。你至少需要接近全A的成績，GPA至少4.2，還要參加SAT考試并取得好成績。國際學生支付的學費比美國本土學生更高。每年大約要花費86,705美元，四年本科學費總計約346,820美元。

Top five countries that make up %27 of the entire student body are from China, Canada, India, South Korea and the UK. Those students are enrolled in some of the best programs in Phisics, Biological Science, Mathematics, Computer Science and Technology. With a lot of them completing their comprehensive doctoral programs in engineering and medicine.

國際學生中占總人數(shù)27%的前五個國家分別是中國、加拿大、印度、韓國和英國。這些學生就讀于頂尖的物理、生物科學、數(shù)學、計算機科學和技術項目，其中很多人完成了工程和醫(yī)學領域的博士課程。

One would think that the future of the nation relies on the education of its youth as well as actacting the brightest talent that can eventually contribute to the growth and prosperity of your economy and the country over all.

人們會認為，一個國家的未來取決于對青年的教育，同時也取決于吸引全球最聰明的人才，從而推動國家經(jīng)濟和社會的整體發(fā)展與繁榮。

Nothing is stopping any American students from attending Harvard or any other prestigious organization. All you need is for your score and grades to be better than those of the applicants who are competing against you.

沒有任何東西阻止美國學生進入哈佛或其他頂尖學府。只要你分數(shù)和成績比其他申請者更好就行。

Not sure what is the exact philosophy behind expelling international students. Besides saying goodbye to their money and a tremendous talent they bring and contributions they make. Unless your goal is to burn the school down, lower it's standards, say fuck you to education in general, kill the innovation and progress in order to empose some new laws and regulations that will forever holt the growth and ability for your country to compete on a world stage.

我不太明白驅(qū)逐國際學生的背后到底遵循著怎樣的邏輯。除非你的目標是放棄他們帶來的金錢以及巨大的人力資源，放棄他們帶來的貢獻，放棄教育產(chǎn)業(yè)本身，扼殺創(chuàng)新與進步，以推行一些新法規(guī)來永久阻礙國家在全球舞臺上的競爭力。

Not to mention you are successfuly destroying your educational system from the ground up. I doubt there will be much of the local talent to even be able to get one foot into Harvard let alone complete a degree. But Donny has a plan I bet it's vengeance and jealousy driven but it's a plan. Have fun with that one. Hopefully Harvard will hold up. If not Canada has top notch universities and we would love to get our hands on some of that talent and the money that comes with it.

更不用說你們正在從根基上摧毀自己的教育系統(tǒng)。屆時，恐怕連本地人才都難以邁入哈佛的大門，更別說完成學位了。不過我相信川普肯定有個計劃，估計是出于報復和嫉妒。祝你好運吧。希望哈佛能堅持下去。如果不行的話，加拿大的大學也很棒，我們很樂意接收這些人才和隨之而來的資金。

Denis Rubin
About ten years ago I was asked to speak to an evening class of aspiring screenwriters at Cal State Northridge.
When I arrived I went to the wrong room and walked in on an engineering class. As far as I could tell, every student was of East or South Asain descent.
When I found the correct classroom nearly every student was white. These were self sexted subjects to study. Make of it what you will.

大約十年前，我受邀去加州州立大學北嶺分校（Cal State Northridge）的一個晚間編劇班演講。  
當我到達時，我走錯了教室，誤入了一個工程學課堂。據(jù)我觀察，幾乎每個學生都是東亞或南亞裔的背景。  
后來找到正確的教室后，發(fā)現(xiàn)那里的學生幾乎全是白人。這些是他們自己選擇的專業(yè)方向。至于其中意味著什么，就由你來判斷吧。

Frank Lucrezi
What is going there are some of the best and brightest the world has to offer. In normal times some of them will choose to stay here. It gives us access to get intelligent people to stay here. Why worry about Harvard Our local hospital has a lot of foreign born doctors. Mostly because our people cant afford to go to even our state schools over the year the tax cuts always came with cuts to education so the cost went up until they are unaffordable and the students ending up with school debt they might get paid off before they die. Funny with that the debt always went up. When the state of PA did it i have no idea where the money went. I do know our school property taxes are threw the roof.
We like to claim we built the bomb we put a man on the moon. Who did it were people from other countries. Right now we dispute science because it does fit peoples religious beliefs.

發(fā)生的情況是，一些世界上最聰明、最有才華的人來到這里學習。在正常情況下，其中一部分會選擇留下來。這給了我們吸引聰明人才留下的機會。為什么要擔心哈佛？我們當?shù)氐尼t(yī)院有很多外國出生的醫(yī)生。主要是因為我們的民眾已經(jīng)負擔不起進入哪怕是本地公立系統(tǒng)州立大學的費用了。多年來稅收減免總是伴隨著教育經(jīng)費削減，導致學費上漲到難以承受的程度，學生們背負著可能一輩子都還不清的學生貸款。有趣的是，債務卻一直在增加。當賓夕法尼亞州這么做時，我根本不知道錢都花到哪里去了。我只知道我們的房產(chǎn)稅已經(jīng)高得離譜。  
我們喜歡聲稱是我們造出了原子彈，是我們把人送上了月球。但當時做這些事的人其實很多來自其他國家。現(xiàn)在我們質(zhì)疑科學，僅僅是因為它不符合某些人的宗教信仰。

Anthony Curtis Adler
The word university comes from the Latin universitas, which means “whole.” A university is, ideally, a whole world unto itself: not only where people live and study, but where they can find a microcosm of the entire world of possibilities for which students are being formed—possibilities that constitute the highest goods that human culture has to offer. This, at least, is the ideal, as imperfectly realized as it is. In the university, you can experiment with possibilities of life that, when you become a full-fledged adult, will require the commitment of an entire life. In the university, you can encounter a wide range of peoples—as a full-fledged adult, your life will collapse into a narrower and narrower, ever more stifling sphere.
Our world does not consist just in Americans. There are other countries. The opportunity to encounter people from other countries is a privilege afforded to American university students.
Moreover, though, foreign students are an important source of revenue for American universities. Many universities only survive, or only prosper, due to this revenue.
If the government were genuinely concerned with American students’ access to education, there are thousands of things they could do. Fighting a war against international admissions is not one of these things.

“University”這個詞源自拉丁語“universitas”，意思是“整體”。理想中的大學，應該是一個自成一體的小世界：不僅是人們生活和學習的地方，更是學生可以接觸到人類文化所能提供的一切可能性的地方——這些可能性構成了最高層次的文化價值。至少這是大學的理想，盡管實現(xiàn)得并不完美。在大學里，你可以嘗試各種人生的可能性，而當你真正成為一個成年人時，這些可能性將需要你用一生去承諾。在大學里，你能遇到各種各樣的人；而當你真正長大成人后，你的生活會逐漸被限制在一個越來越狹窄、令人窒息的空間中。  
我們的世界不僅僅由美國人組成。還有其他國家的存在。能與來自不同國家的人交流，是一種美國大學生所享有的特權。  
此外，國際學生也是美國大學的重要收入來源。許多大學之所以能夠生存甚至繁榮，正是因為這部分收入。  
如果政府真的關心美國學生的教育機會問題，他們可以有一千件事供選擇。但打擊國際招生絕不是其中之一。

Andrew Court
In this country international students, who pay the university “retail” for the course, help the university make money to subsidise the cost for the locals / citizens..Also offering some places on courses is part of this country foreign aid effort.. Also some courses, which are very specialist in nature may not be able to be run because there are not enough local students to warrant it… but a few fee paying international students can bring the class numbers up!
The bottomline is there is good money in foreign students !

在這個國家，國際學生支付的是“全價”學費，他們的存在幫助大學賺取利潤，從而補貼本地學生/公民的教育花費。同時，提供一些名額給國際學生也是這個國家對外援助的一部分。還有一些非常專業(yè)化的課程，如果只依靠寥寥無幾的本地學生支撐班級人數(shù)，這些課甚至無法開設。但如果有幾個付費的國際學生加入，就能湊夠開課人數(shù)！  
歸根結底，招收國際學生是一件賺錢的事！

Bill Fischer
You do know that American students also travel abroad to study at places like Oxford, the Sorbonne, Italian Universities (such as Milan), also in Madrid, Lisbon, Athens, Berlin, Vienna, and even a number of “developing” countries, right?
And unlike our current political leaders, most of those countries educate and help our exchange and study abroad students until they come home mostly with lasting, good memories.
Our universities don’t “cater” to foreigners. We exchange with other countries. They usually pay non-resident fees to attend school here which are usually higher fees than what U.S. students pay.
Oh and one more thing: If we have an American student get ill in the UK or become sick or injured in France, Spain, Italy, Sweden, Denmark, Austria or Peru and at the same time a foreign student at Harvard also becomes sick or injured, guess who gets a much better deal on getting treated?

你知道嗎，美國學生也會出國去牛津、索邦大學、意大利的大學（比如米蘭）、馬德里、里斯本、雅典、柏林、維也納，甚至一些“發(fā)展中國家”留學？  
而且與我們目前的政治領導人不同，大多數(shù)國家都會善待并幫助前來交換和留學的美國學生，讓他們帶著美好的回憶回國。  
我們的大學并沒有“迎合”外國人。我們是在與其他國家進行學術交流。他們通常要支付非居民學費，這種學費通常比美國本土學生更高。  
哦對了還有一件事：如果一個美國學生在英國生病，或者在法國、西班牙、意大利、瑞典、丹麥、奧地利或秘魯受傷，與此同時還有一個在哈佛讀書的外國學生也生了病或受了傷，猜猜誰能得到更好的治療？

Daniel Ruddman
Harvard is a private organization. It receives federal funds for research and contracts, but not for its undergraduate studies. If Harvard wants to sell its services to people who do not have US citizenship, they are allowed to.
The US government grants student visas. It doesn’t have to. If we don’t want colleges teaching people without US citizenship, then we can repeal the student visa. That would, of course, affect all schools and not just Harvard.
As others have said, the US benefits from training foreign students. We also benefit from having private organizations that can make their money however they see fit.
Many governments decide to take over ownership of private businesses. When they do, the term is they “socialized” the industry. Do we really want to socialize education?

哈佛是一所私立機構。它獲得聯(lián)邦資金用于研究和合同項目，但不包括本科教育。如果哈佛想向未擁有美國國籍的人出售其服務，它是有這個權利的。  
美國政府發(fā)放學生簽證。它也可以不發(fā)。如果我們不想讓大學教那些非美國國籍的學生，我們可以廢除學生簽證制度。當然，這會影響所有學校，不只是哈佛。  
正如其他人所說，美國從培訓國際學生中受益。我們也從擁有可以自由運作的私營組織中受益。  
很多國家決定接管私營企業(yè)。當它們這么做的時候，我們稱之為“國有化”。我們真的也想學它們那樣把教育國有化嗎？

Shankar MN
In my experience, at the master's and PhD levels (engg or pure life sciences), there are hardly any American takers (in my master's class there were around 5% Americans). At the undergraduate level (bachelors ), American students are a clear majority.

根據(jù)我的經(jīng)驗，在碩士和博士階段（工程或基礎生命科學領域），幾乎沒有美國學生愿意選擇這些方向（我讀碩士時，班上大約只有5%是美國人）。而在本科階段（學士學位），美國學生則明顯占多數(shù)。

I do not know if the low american head count in advanced courses can be attributed to the lack of interest, need or test performance.

我不確定高級課程中美國學生人數(shù)少是否是因為缺乏興趣、需求，還是考試成績的問題。

The majority in my classes were Asians. I think it will not be possible for such higher degree classes to function without international students. Bear in mind that univs run entire towns/cities with their student population.

我所在班級的學生大多數(shù)是亞洲人。我認為，如果沒有國際學生，這些高層次的研究生課程根本無法正常運作。別忘了，大學的學生群體往往支撐著整個城鎮(zhèn)或城市的運轉。

That being said, it would be incorrect to say that American universities “do not care” about American students. It is a wide-open international competition that all are welcome to take part in. There are some stringent requirements to get into the top univs - The ivy leagues have been a holy grail reserved for the best of the best even a century ago! Nothing has changed.

話雖如此，說美國大學“不關心”美國學生是不完全準確的。這是一個開放的國際競爭體系，所有人都可以參與。進入頂尖大學的要求非常嚴格——常春藤聯(lián)盟早在一百年前就是全球最優(yōu)秀人才的圣地，這一點至今未變。

Along comes our knight in shining armor who:

然而現(xiàn)在來了這樣一位“閃亮騎士”：

1. Is an indicted felon
2. Hires incompetent cronies to important/pivotal positions so he can remain untouched and make a mockery of the government apparatus
3. Grants unconditional pardon to criminals he is pally with, thereby making a mockery of the law and the public servants who dedicated time and effort to establishing culpability
4. Threatens nations who have been steadfast US allies for decades
5. Is corrupt beyond words... and the entire globe knows it now
6. Undermines every single thing/idea/premise America stands for
7. Has reneged on pretty much every promise that he had made in order to get elected.
8. Was heavily docked by the US court system for scamming gullible students over his "trump university" claims, which was forced to shut down.
9. Convinced the majority with specious reasoning to settle personal scores (ex. the china and canada spat was due to fentanyl and the Harvard and Columbia spat was due to anti-semitism and “woke ness”, the Mexico spat was due to “very bad people” coming in “very large numbers” from there! Mind you, none of these are new problems. But he has made all of them emergent issues in order to circumvent congress debate)

1. 他是一名曾經(jīng)被起訴的重罪嫌疑犯  
2. 任命無能的親信擔任重要職位，以確保自己不受牽連，并讓整個政府機構淪為笑柄  
3. 對與他關系密切的罪犯無條件赦免，使法律和為此付出努力的公務員變得毫無意義  
4. 威脅那些幾十年來一直是美國堅定盟友的國家  
5. 腐敗程度前所未有……全世界都知道這一點  
6. 破壞了美國所代表的一切理念  
7. 幾乎違背了他為當選而做出的所有承諾  
8. 因其“特朗普大學”的虛假宣傳，被美國法院裁定欺詐無辜學生，并被迫關閉  
9. 利用似是而非的理由說服大多數(shù)人只為滿足自己的私怨（例如：與中國和加拿大的爭端是因為芬太尼問題；與哈佛和哥倫比亞大學的爭端是因為反猶主義和“政治正確”；與墨西哥的爭端則是因為“非常壞的人”正“大量”從那里進來！請注意，這些問題都不是新出現(xiàn)的。但他卻把這些變成了緊急議題，只是為了繞過國會辯論）

I just don't think it is in the best interest of the American public to place blind trust on this administration. Actions need to be challenged and debated more vigorously. Yes, it has to be endured; but I urge everyone to do their own research and not take these diktats as gospel. Up until now, all/most of these “executive orders” are personal scores being settled.

我實在不認為盲目信任這一屆政府是符合美國公眾最佳利益的。這些行為需要更有力地被挑戰(zhàn)和討論。是的，盡管我們現(xiàn)在必須忍受，但我呼吁每個人都要自己去做研究，不要把這些命令當作真理。迄今為止，幾乎所有這些“行政命令”都不過是為了公報私仇而已。

Peace out!

和過去的美好光景說拜拜吧！

Daniel Maltz
All academic fields are international. All of the most prestigious universities around the world have international student bodies and staffs. One of the major benefits of attending a high prestige university for American students is the opportunity to get to meet and interact with major researchers and future researchers from all over the world. Eliminating international students would significantly lower the value of an education at any university anywhere in the world.

所有學術領域都是國際化的。世界上所有最頂尖的大學都擁有來自世界各地的學生和教職員工。對美國學生來說，進入一所聲譽卓著的大學的一大好處，就是有機會接觸并交流來自全球的重要研究人員和未來的學者。如果取消國際學生，那么無論在世界任何地方，大學教育的價值都將大大降低。

Brian Yankee
absolutely. Unlike students from the US, foreign students typically do not receive tuition assistance from their schools. They pay the full tuition rates. This allows US colleges and universities to offer scholarships, grants and other discounts to students from the US (which shows how much they “care about American students”).. This is a major reason why US colleges and universities are so aggressive about recruiting students from other countries.

完全正確。與美國本土學生不同，外國學生通常不會從學校獲得學費補助。他們支付全額學費。這使得美國的學院和大學能夠向美國學生提供獎學金、助學金和其他折扣（這也說明了大學其實很“關心”美國學生）。這也是為什么美國高校如此積極地招募海外學生的主要原因之一。

Ted Weitz
Donald Trump claims to be very concerned about the balance of trade. It is the entire rationale for the ridiculous tariff war he is conducting. The United States has a huge surplus in services. This helps the balance of trade. If universities in the United States eliminate foreign students, our balance of trade will be worse by many billions of dollars.
United States economic growth is driven in large part by our technological leadership. An enormous amount of that leadership is directly driven by basic research conducted at universities. In order to do that research we need to attract the best and the brightest. For decades the United States has benefited from being attractive to the world's top scientists and other researchers. The direct result of the damage being done to universities is and will be to drive away the very people who make the United States economy productive. A Norwegian physicist weighing offers from Cambridge, the Sorbonne, Harvard and Columbia today will not even consider the country that is harassing foreigners, stopping multiyear projects in the middle and driving out experts in his field. And the impact of that will be felt for decades to come, even if the policies are not continued.

唐納德·特朗普聲稱自己非常關注貿(mào)易平衡問題。這也是他發(fā)起這場荒謬關稅戰(zhàn)的唯一理由。美國在服務貿(mào)易方面有巨大的順差，這對貿(mào)易平衡起到了積極作用。如果美國大學不再招收國際學生，我們的貿(mào)易赤字將因此增加數(shù)千億美元。
美國經(jīng)濟增長在很大程度上依賴于我們在科技領域的領導地位。而這種領先地位中的很大一部分直接來源于大學開展的基礎研究。為了進行這些研究，我們必須吸引世界上最優(yōu)秀、最聰明的人才。幾十年來，美國一直受益于它對全球頂尖科學家和其他研究人員的吸引力。
目前針對大學所造成的損害，將會把那些原本可能留在美國推動經(jīng)濟生產(chǎn)力發(fā)展的專家驅(qū)逐出境。比如一位挪威物理學家正在比較劍橋大學、索邦大學、哈佛大學和哥倫比亞大學的錄取通知，今天他可能就不會考慮一個正在騷擾外國人、中斷多年研究項目、趕走本領域?qū)＜业膰?。這種影響將持續(xù)數(shù)十年，即使這些政策未來被廢除也難以挽回。

Khengchat Ng
Your education is like a manufactured product. Instead of shipping it overseas, you get the customer to come to you to take delivery - cash on delivery. So if you want customers, you cater to their needs. You can place an embargo on it, like Trump just did. But don't scream if the other party place export bans on critical materials because they want to cater to their own manufacturers first.

你們的教育就像一種制造出來的產(chǎn)品。只不過不是把它出口到國外，而是讓客戶親自來到你這里接受產(chǎn)品——以現(xiàn)金方式實現(xiàn)貨到付款。所以如果你想吸引顧客，就必須滿足他們的需求。你可以像特朗普一樣實施禁令，但如果你這么做了，就別抱怨其他國家也會對關鍵原材料實施出口禁令，因為他們也要優(yōu)先滿足本國制造商的需求。