紅迪：中國的刷掌支付

@ManagerOfLove
In Germany we pay with the same technology as in the roman empire

在德國，我們用和羅馬帝國時期一樣的技術(shù)付款。

@Kratzschutz
I'm German and in this case l love that we are so tech adverse (only in this case tho). Cash has way more advantages for me

（回復 @ManagerOfLove）我是德國人，在這種情況下，我喜歡我們?nèi)绱说钟|科技（不過只在這種情況下）?，F(xiàn)金對我來說有更多優(yōu)勢。

@No-Procedure562
Cash is king.

（回復 @ManagerOfLove）現(xiàn)金為王。

@MisterMcZesty
Chunks of bronze or the denarius ?

（回復 @ManagerOfLove）是青銅塊還是第納爾銀幣誒？
（譯者注：第納爾銀幣是古羅馬最廣泛流通的銀幣之一，是古羅馬貨幣體系的核心，在電影《角斗士》中時有出現(xiàn)）

@STFUnicorn_
Salt

（回復 @MisterMcZesty）鹽。

@NinthParasite
Counterfeit bread.

（回復 @STFUnicorn_）假面包。

@Pyyric
The glorious legions of the emperor will take what they require

（回復 @STFUnicorn_）（羅馬）皇帝的光榮軍團將拿走他們所需的東西。

@Core_System
Holy shit

（回復 @Pyyric）我靠。

@herewegojagex
I went to Berlin and was shocked at how it was cash only, literally EVERYWHERE! After coming from London, it was such a backwards feeling as I’ve been paying with only my phone or Apple Watch for years. My wallet doesn’t even come out with me anymore.

（回復 @ManagerOfLove）我去了柏林，震驚地發(fā)現(xiàn)幾乎所有地方都只收現(xiàn)金！
從倫敦過來后，感覺非常落后，因為我多年來一直只用手機或蘋果手表付款。
我的錢包甚至都不帶出門了。

@Charlem912
Must have been some time ago. I live in Germany and haven’t been using cash for years

（回復 @herewegojagex）那肯定是前一陣子的事了。我住在德國，已經(jīng)好幾年沒用過現(xiàn)金了。

@herewegojagex
It was only two years ago.

（回復 @Charlem912）那只是兩年前。

@Charlem912
I live in Frankfurt and that’s the norm here, too. Berlin always seems to be an anomaly compared to the other big cities in Germany I feel like

（回復 @herewegojagex）我住在法蘭克福，這里也一樣。我感覺柏林和德國其他大城市比起來總像個異類。

@SpecialistShot722
I was there like four years ago in between lockdowns, and the only place that didn't take my Mastercard was a lone food truck selling doner kebab. And I spent like a week there visiting all kinds of places and eating out all the time. I even paid at the supermarkets for 1 euro snacks shit with my card, tapping with my phone. Where did you struggle to pay with card? Matter of fact I have never bothered about cash in any of the big cities in Germany. This stereotype needs to die.

（回復 @Charlem912）我大概四年前封鎖期間去過那里，唯一不收我萬事達卡的地方是一家賣土耳其烤肉的獨立餐車。
我在那里待了大概一周，逛了各種地方，一直都在外面吃飯。
我甚至在超市用我的卡，用手機輕觸支付了1歐元的小吃。
你在哪里用卡支付遇到困難了？
事實上，我在德國任何一個大城市都沒為現(xiàn)金煩惱過。
這種刻板印象該消失了。

@herewegojagex
Perhaps everywhere was a bit hyperbole of me. But seriously, it was a larger portion of establishments than I would have expected for a major European country. I don’t think it’s a stereotype at all as I experienced first hand that myself and if you look online it’s quite a common tourist comment.

（回復 @SpecialistShot722）也許說“所有地方”是我有點夸張了。
但說真的，只收現(xiàn)金的店鋪比例比我對一個歐洲主要國家的預期要大。
我根本不認為這是刻板印象，因為我自己親身經(jīng)歷過，而且如果你上網(wǎng)看，這是一個很常見的游客評論。

@invariantspeed
You can do the same in all western countries, but several still favor cash. Go to London and you can momentarily confuse a shopkeeper by pulling out cash, since they already activated the card machine.

（回復 @herewegojagex）在所有西方國家你都可以這么做，但有些國家仍然偏愛現(xiàn)金。
去倫敦，你掏出現(xiàn)金可能會讓店員一時困惑，因為他們已經(jīng)啟動了刷卡機。

@free__coffee
I was just in berlin, i have no idea what that dude is talking about. I went to one donner spot that was cash only, but thats about the same ratio of places with cash only in the states

（回復 @herewegojagex）我剛在柏林，我不知道那家伙在說什么。我去了一個只收現(xiàn)金的土耳其烤肉店，但這和美國只收現(xiàn)金的地方的比例差不多。

@RoamingArchitect
I had the reverse experience in London. I remember walking into a bakery some 8 years ago and them explaining to me that they don't take cash. I had to use my credit card for a bloody sandwich. I'm still salty that my first ever credit card transaction was a sandwich because my mother didn't even have a credit card and they wouldn't take cash.
Although there are downsides to cash only societies. Today I found out that an atm I used regularly in the inner city closed down and I didn't have enough cash on me for dinner. So I had to scrounge up leftovers back home.

（回復 @herewegojagex）我在倫敦有相反的經(jīng)歷。
我記得大約8年前走進一家面包店，他們向我解釋說他們不收現(xiàn)金。
我不得不用我的信用卡買一個該死的三明治。
我現(xiàn)在還耿耿于懷，因為我人生第一筆信用卡交易居然是買一個三明治，我母親甚至沒有信用卡，而他們不收現(xiàn)金。
雖然只收現(xiàn)金的社會也有缺點，今天我發(fā)現(xiàn)我市中心經(jīng)常用的一個ATM機關(guān)閉了，而我身上沒有足夠的現(xiàn)金吃晚飯，所以我只好回家湊合吃剩飯了。

@jl2352
It takes getting used to. I live in London and find it bizarre in some countries I can’t pay for things with just my phone. I rarely carry a card, and even more rarely carry cash.
Contactless is just so much faster and more convenient than the hassle of managing cash.

（回復 @RoamingArchitect）這需要習慣。我住在倫敦，發(fā)現(xiàn)在一些國家我不能只用手機付款，感覺很奇怪。
我很少帶卡，更少帶現(xiàn)金。
非接觸式支付比管理現(xiàn)金的麻煩要快得多、方便得多。

@NihiloEx
I live in India. Here, the government routinely turns off mobile networks if there's any public unrest. It also does so if there's a job examination. For example, here and here. All those who want to pay using their phones during such times are fucked.

（回復 @jl2352）我住在印度。在這里，只要有任何公眾騷亂，政府就會例行關(guān)閉移動網(wǎng)絡(luò)。
如果有職業(yè)考試，它也會這樣做。例如，這里和這里。
所有那些在那種時候想用手機支付的人就完蛋了。

@clarenceboddickered
Countdown to increased dehandifications

“去手化”增加倒計時。

@Old_Lead_2110
You can change your password, you can change your pincode - but you cannot change your palm. If stolen somehow then there is no way back

（回復 @clarenceboddickered）你可以改你的密碼，你可以改你的PIN碼——但你不能改你的手掌。
如果不知怎么被偷了，那就沒法回頭了。

@PrismaticDetector
This would be my concern exactly. Biometrics are not more secure because they are unique to you- once you're in the system, if there's a digital step at any point the process, they become trivial to copy and cannot be changed to correct the breach.

（回復 @Old_Lead_2110）這正是我擔心的。生物識別技術(shù)并非因為對你獨一無二而更安全——一旦你進入系統(tǒng)，如果在過程中的任何時候有數(shù)字步驟，它們就變得微不足道，容易復制，并且無法更改以糾正泄露。

@Rawrakai
Take this logic further and you'll realize that this is true for essentially any form of secret or passkey. It's not true that you "cannot change your palm" since it's likely stored in a modified digital form through a hashing function.
If your "hashed palm data" is stolen the auth provider would just have to add a new random salt to create a new hash.
If the attack comes earlier in the process like a picture of your hand, then i would expect the camera sensors to weed out malicious actors with things like heat sensors and other instruments that would force someone to create a nearly identical copy of a living human hand.
TLDR: Biometrics doesn't change anything for high-effort scams, and probably saves us from some low-effort scams like stealing credit cards or passwords which makes it a net positive.

（回復 @PrismaticDetector）把這個邏輯再推進一步，你會意識到這基本上對任何形式的秘密或密鑰都適用。
說你“不能改變你的手掌”是不對的，因為它很可能是通過哈希函數(shù)以修改過的數(shù)字形式存儲的。
如果你的“哈?；终茢?shù)據(jù)”被盜，認證提供商只需添加一個新的隨機鹽值來創(chuàng)建一個新的哈希值。
如果攻擊發(fā)生在過程的早期，比如一張你的手的照片，那么我期望攝像頭傳感器會用熱傳感器和其他儀器來剔除惡意行為者，這些儀器會迫使某人創(chuàng)建一個幾乎與活人手一模一樣的復制品。
太長不讀版：生物識別技術(shù)對高成本的詐騙沒什么改變，但可能能讓我們免受一些低成本的詐騙，比如偷信用卡或密碼，所以總的來說是利大于弊的。

@Kaeiaraeh
Also, if you really just, just disable palm payments on your account I guess?

（回復 @Rawrakai）還有，如果你真的……就只是在你的賬戶上禁用手掌支付，我猜？

@tommos
I wonder if scrotum wrinkles are unique...

（回復 @Kaeiaraeh）我想知道陰囊的皺紋是不是獨一無二的……

@NotReallyJohnDoe
If someone stole your palm vein pattern from the computer they can’t really do much with it. They can’t present it as your palm unless they somehow construct an artificial palm with your vein pattern. Something that is extremely difficult/impossible and if you do it wrong you will immediately attract attention.
They could potentially present it as a man in the middle attack but if they had that level of access they wouldn’t need to bother.
Biometrics are used safely and securely all over the world. India has more than a billion people enrolled with face, fingerprint and iris.
The concern about “l(fā)osing” your biometrics is overblown.

（回復 @Old_Lead_2110）如果有人從電腦上偷了你的手掌靜脈圖案，他們其實做不了什么。
他們無法把它當作你的手掌來呈現(xiàn)，除非他們不知怎么地用你的靜脈圖案構(gòu)造一個人工手掌。
這是極其困難/不可能的，如果你做錯了，會立刻引起注意。
他們可能會把它作為中間人攻擊來呈現(xiàn)，但如果他們有那種級別的訪問權(quán)限，他們就不必費這個勁了。
生物識別技術(shù)在世界各地都被安全地使用著。
印度有超過十億人注冊了面部、指紋和虹膜。
關(guān)于“丟失”你的生物識別信息的擔憂實在是被夸大了。

@HappyAku800
You can cancel the feature

（回復 @Old_Lead_2110）你可以取消這個功能呀。

@vexir
I’ve been doing this at Whole Foods for years now…
Edit: everyone thinks I was making a shoplifting joke but i wasn’t! Pay with your palm has been a thing there for a while now

我已經(jīng)在全食超市（譯者注：全食超市系一家美國的天然食品和有機食品零售商——這樣做很多年了……
編輯：大家都以為我在開順手牽羊的玩笑，但我不是！用手掌支付在那里已經(jīng)有一段時間了 。

@shantron5000
Yeah, the change happened with the Amazon buyout and was rolled out from there.
(Source: am Whole Foods employee.)

（回復 @vexir）是的，這個改變發(fā)生在亞馬遜收購之后，并從那里推廣開來。（來源：我是全食超市的員工。）

@skinnymean
To clarify: Amazon buyout occurred in 2017. This was rolled out much later in 2023 (tested in 2022). It’s due to Amazon but was not related to the buyout.
(Source: am a former Whole Foods Customer Service TL that worked pre-Amazon and stayed through the transition)

（回復 @shantron5000）澄清一下：亞馬遜收購發(fā)生在2017年。這個是在晚得多的2023年推出的（2022年測試）。
這是因為亞馬遜，但與收購無關(guān)。
（來源：我是一名曾在亞馬遜收購前工作并經(jīng)歷了過渡期的前全食超市客服團隊負責人）

@StrawberryLassi
The crazy thing is it still recognized my hand after I had surgery on one of my fingers.

（回復 @vexir）瘋狂的是，在我一根手指做了手術(shù)后，它仍然能識別我的手。

@shantron5000
My understanding is that it’s primarily reading the features of your palm. Like a magic gypsy robot fortune teller, but instead it just takes your money and you still have to guess your future.

（回復 @StrawberryLassi）我的理解是，它主要是讀取你手掌的特征。就像一個神奇的吉普賽機器人算命先生，但它只是拿走你的錢，你還得自己猜測你的未來。

@TheTrollinator777
Ahh, the old scan your palm walk out with free groceries trick.

（回復 @vexir）啊，古老的掃描手掌然后帶著免費雜貨走出去的把戲。

@Cowboywizzard
The old five finger discount

（回復 @vexir）古老的“五（指）折（扣）”（譯者注：順手牽羊的意思）呀。

@frequency8
It’s called Amazon One. It uses your palm signature and vein structure to recognize you. Pretty convenient.

（回復 @vexir）它叫做Amazon One。它用你的手掌特征和靜脈結(jié)構(gòu)來識別你，相當方便。

@skyycux
Also lots more biometric data to collect! Yay!

（回復 @frequency8）還有更多生物識別數(shù)據(jù)可以收集！耶！

@Sig-vicous
Thank you for shopping at Walmart, here is your emailed receipt. By the way, it looks like your blood pressure is a little high, should we schedule you an appointment with our cardiovascular department in aisle H22?

（回復 @skyycux）感謝您在沃爾瑪購物，這是您的電子郵件收據(jù)。順便說一下，看起來您的血壓有點高，我們是否應該為您在H22過道的心血管科安排一個預約？

@Prestigious_Nobody45
yes actually, thanks for noticing

（回復 @Sig-vicous）是的，實際上，謝謝提醒。

@HaltAndCatchTheKnick
Right? Like that seems the real cost of this “convenience” (who doesn’t have their phone in their palm these days anyways?)

（回復 @skyycux）對吧？那似乎是這種“便利”的真正代價（反正現(xiàn)在誰的手里沒拿著手機呢？）

@spartaman64
what are they going to do with my vein structure data?

（回復 @skyycux）他們要拿我的靜脈結(jié)構(gòu)數(shù)據(jù)做什么？

@RockItGuyDC
Yeah, I first saw them at the, I believe now defunct, Amazon Fresh stores. But Amazon moved them over to Whole Foods pretty quickly. I've never used one.

（回復 @vexir）是的，我第一次看到它們是在，我相信現(xiàn)在已經(jīng)倒閉了的，亞馬遜生鮮店里。
但亞馬遜很快就把它們移到了全食超市，我從沒用過。

@Training-Drive-6419
Amazon Fresh is still around. I go to the one in Irvine. Paying with my palm feels like I’m in the future. It’s much better (and fun!) than paying with Apple Wallet.

（回復 @RockItGuyDC）亞馬遜生鮮還在，我去爾灣的那家，用手掌支付感覺像我在未來，比用蘋果錢包支付好得多（也好玩！）。

@YourMatt
Every single time I'm at the checkout, I think it would be nice to do this, but I don't have time to do whatever setup it needs right now. Then I wave my watch across for payment, and I've paid with only slightly more effort than I would have spent by scanning my palm.
If scanning my palm automatically applies my prime account, then I think it would be worth it.

（回復 @vexir）每次我在結(jié)賬時，我都覺得這樣做會很好，但我現(xiàn)在沒時間去做它需要的任何設(shè)置。
然后我揮動我的手表付款，我只比掃描手掌多花了一點點力氣就付了款。
如果掃描我的手掌能自動應用我的Prime賬戶，那么我認為那將是值得的。

@Short_Primary_9118
Scanning your palm does auto apply your prime account..long time Amazon One user. Couple months ago their palm system was down for about a week or so so I scrambled for alternate payment at the time but definitely worth the convenience.

（回復 @YourMatt）掃描你的手掌確實會自動應用你的Prime賬戶……我是亞馬遜一號的長期用戶。
幾個月前他們的手掌系統(tǒng)癱瘓了大約一周，所以我當時手忙腳亂地找替代支付方式，但絕對值得這份便利。

@MisterMcZesty
I set mine up at a tradeshow when it was still in testing, then a few years later my Whole Foods deployed the palm readers and it remembered me

（回復 @YourMatt）我是在一次展會上設(shè)置的，當時它還在測試中，幾年后我的全食超市部署了手掌讀取器，它還記得我。

@Several_Vanilla8916
I decided Amazon knows enough about me and passed on the palm payment.

（回復 @vexir）我決定亞馬遜已經(jīng)知道我足夠多了，所以放棄了手掌支付。

@SockPuppet-47
I too registered my palm at Whole Foods and have used it for payment several times. I don't go often but it's fun to pay for my purchases that way.
I'm also a Amazon Prime member and have the Amazon credit card. The 5% cash back adds up. It also takes the sting out of the Whole Foods prices.

（回復 @vexir）我也在全食超市注冊了我的手掌，并且用它付過幾次款。
我不常去，但用那種方式為我的購物付款很有趣。
我也是亞馬遜Prime會員，并且有亞馬遜信用卡。
5%的現(xiàn)金返還加起來不少。它也減輕了全食超市價格的刺痛感。

@Sgt-Dert13
My Whole Foods has this. 

我的全食超市有這個。

@jackofslayers
Yea it is definitely not common but I have seen it in some random places.

（回復 @Sgt-Dert13）是的，它肯定不常見，但我隨機地在幾個地方見過。

@arrius01
I have no interest or need to pay with a scan of my palm every time I want a drink or some other small nonsense. This is not a quality of life improvement. This is clearly surveillance masquerading as life improvement technology

我沒興趣也沒必要每次想買杯飲料或其他小玩意兒時都用手掌掃描來支付，這不是生活質(zhì)量的改善，這顯然是偽裝成生活改善技術(shù)的監(jiān)視。

@404-tech-no-logic
Yep. They now have a database with your info and fingerprints.The real risk is data collection

（回復 @arrius01）是的。他們現(xiàn)在有了一個包含你信息和指紋的數(shù)據(jù)庫。真正的風險是數(shù)據(jù)收集。

@superschwick
Goes a little deeper too. One of the important factors in authentication of any type (very much including authentication for payment, which a card or apparently hand shape can be) is that it is mutable.
If your password is compromised, or your card number is stolen, you can get a new password or card. See what can be done if your hand data gets stolen. good luck.

（回復 @404-tech-no-logic）還可以再深入一點。任何類型認證（非常包括用于支付的認證，可以是一張卡或顯然是手形）的一個重要因素是它是可變的。
如果你的密碼被泄露，或你的卡號被盜，你可以得到一個新的密碼或卡。
看看如果你的手部數(shù)據(jù)被盜能做什么。祝你好運。