QA回答：如果中國獲得了一架墜毀的F-22或F-35戰(zhàn)機(jī)，這對他們有多大價(jià)值？

Qi Chen
Not really useful.

沒什么用。

If it is an intact F-22 or F-35, then it is useful, as China can move them into an EM dark room and make a detailed analysis on the radar reflection, which will aid in image reconstruction in their AA missiles.

如果是一架完整的 F-22 或 F-35，那就有用了，因?yàn)橹袊梢园阉鼈儼徇M(jìn)電磁暗室，對其雷達(dá)反射進(jìn)行詳細(xì)分析，這將有助于其防空導(dǎo)彈的圖像重構(gòu)。

Modern missiles in China uses something called imagine reconstruction target identification technique. It is basically an advanced military version of your facial recognition algorithm on smart phones. What it does is that it will take the radar and heat signature from the target and reconstruction them digitally into shapes and patterns and then the onboard computer in the missile will see if it is the intended target.

中國的現(xiàn)代導(dǎo)彈使用一種叫做圖像重構(gòu)目標(biāo)識別技術(shù)的東西。它基本上是你智能手機(jī)上人臉識別算法的先進(jìn)軍用版本。它的作用是獲取目標(biāo)的雷達(dá)和熱信號特征，將其數(shù)字化重構(gòu)成形狀和圖案，然后導(dǎo)彈上的機(jī)載計(jì)算機(jī)就會判斷這是否是預(yù)定目標(biāo)。

This means unlike the Hollywood movies, flares and decoys will not work against these modern missiles, because these missiles can actually tell which is a plane and which are the decoys.

這意味著，不像好萊塢電影里那樣，熱焰彈和誘餌對這些現(xiàn)代導(dǎo)彈不起作用，因?yàn)檫@些導(dǎo)彈實(shí)際上能分辨出哪架是飛機(jī)，哪些是誘餌。

There was a rumor floating around back in 2000s that the reason US bombed the Chinese Embassy in Belgrade back in 1999 was due to Yugoslavia passing on some of the wreckage of the F-117:

在2000年代曾流傳著一個(gè)謠言，說美國在1999年轟炸中國駐貝爾格萊德大使館的原因，是南斯拉夫轉(zhuǎn)交了一些F-117的殘骸：

But that’s more than 20 years ago. Chinese stealth aircraft coating has been through at least three major revision in the main time while US material science didn’t actually change much in the mean time.

但那都是20多年前的事了。在此期間，中國的隱身戰(zhàn)機(jī)涂層至少經(jīng)歷了三次重大改進(jìn)，而美國的材料科學(xué)在此期間并沒有太大變化。

Of course, the whole thing is a rumor in the first place, there is no confirmation whatsoever.

當(dāng)然，整件事首先就是個(gè)謠言，沒有任何證實(shí)。

Rodra Hascaryo
Depends on what you define as “crash”. Crash into the sea and broke up into tiny pieces? Probably worthless. There’s only so much you can learn about the latest American technology from literal nuts and bolts scattered all over the seabed.

這取決于你對“墜毀”的定義。墜入大海并摔成碎片？可能毫無價(jià)值。你能從散落在海底的零散螺母螺栓（喻指碎片）中學(xué)到的最新技術(shù)知識是有限的。

Crash landed but mostly intact? A lot. You can bet that every bit of the airplane is going to be scrutinized, regardless whether they’re intact or not, looking for answers they wanted to know and also for stuff that they don’t know that they don’t know. An intact airplane is a lot easier to study.

墜毀著陸但大體完整？價(jià)值很大。你可以打賭，飛機(jī)的每一個(gè)部分都會被仔細(xì)檢查，不管它們是否完好，目的是尋找他們想知道的答案，以及那些他們不知道自己不知道的東西。一架完整的飛機(jī)研究起來要容易得多。


(This was not even a “crash landing”, the landing gear failed on a routine landing)

（這甚至算不上“墜毀著陸”，只是起落架在常規(guī)著陸時(shí)故障了）

This is probably what they’re hoping for. You can guarantee that within a few years China would have reverse engineered everything. When the jet gets shipped back, it would be in pieces. This was more or less the standard operating procedure for both sides during the Cold War whenever they can get their hands on the enemy’s hardware.

這很可能就是他們所希望的。你可以保證，幾年之內(nèi)中國就能把一切都逆向工程出來。等這架飛機(jī)被運(yùn)回時(shí)，它只會是一堆碎片。這在冷戰(zhàn)時(shí)期，每當(dāng)雙方能拿到對方硬件時(shí)，或多或少就是標(biāo)準(zhǔn)的操作程序。

China is probably interested in the insides of the airplane more than anything else, things like radar, sensors, avionics, and electronics. Of course, the Chinese would also be grateful for any extra tips on how to make stealthy and reliable jet engines.

中國可能對飛機(jī)的內(nèi)部構(gòu)造最感興趣，比如雷達(dá)、傳感器、航電系統(tǒng)和電子設(shè)備。當(dāng)然，中國人也會感謝任何關(guān)于如何制造隱形且可靠噴氣發(fā)動機(jī)的額外提示。


Depending on the crash, some of these may be intact. But a lot would depend on luck, which is why no serious airplane development hinges on fortunate accidents happening.

墜機(jī)情況不同，有些部件可能完好無損。但這很大程度上取決于運(yùn)氣，因此正規(guī)的飛機(jī)研發(fā)絕不會依賴僥幸事故的發(fā)生。

Felix Su
It should be somewhat useful. The coating is something that everyone wants to look at to see if they did something different. You can always learn something, even if it’s what not to do. The coating on the F-35 has some issues. It peels off if you go supersonic for more than a few minutes.

應(yīng)該有些用處。涂層是每個(gè)人都想看看的東西，看看他們是否做了些不同的事情。你總能學(xué)到點(diǎn)東西，即使學(xué)到的是不該做什么。F-35的涂層有些問題。如果你以超音速飛行超過幾分鐘，它就會剝落。

If I were them, I would want to study the structure of the interior of the plane. The engineering compromises the designers made. It will let you better understand how to fight against it better. The weak points so to speak. Although at this point, the scandals about the F-35 are so many that they probably know many of the weak points but still, you would want to verify.

如果我是他們，我會想研究飛機(jī)內(nèi)部的結(jié)構(gòu)。設(shè)計(jì)師所做的工程權(quán)衡。這會讓你更好地理解如何更有效地對抗它。也就是所謂的弱點(diǎn)。盡管目前關(guān)于F-35的丑聞已經(jīng)夠多了，他們可能知道很多弱點(diǎn)，但你仍然會想要驗(yàn)證。

They would probably be most interested in the electronics suite in the plane rather than the plane itself. By studying the electronics, they would know better how to counter the F-35. How to disrupt the data sharing network. Once the network goes down, the plane will be fighting by itself. Which makes it easy to kill.

他們可能對飛機(jī)上的電子設(shè)備套件最感興趣，而不是飛機(jī)本身。通過研究電子設(shè)備，他們能更清楚如何反制F-35。如何破壞數(shù)據(jù)共享網(wǎng)絡(luò)。一旦網(wǎng)絡(luò)癱瘓，飛機(jī)就只能單打獨(dú)斗。這就很容易被擊落。

You will see many Youtube videos on which plane is better. But in the real world planes don’t do dogfights like in some kind of arena battle. They are engaged with each other in a theater and it depends on what support the fighter planes has. Whoever has the better data, ie. know where the enemy is, how many, how high, how fast, etc. will be the winner.

你會看到很多關(guān)于哪種飛機(jī)更好的YouTube視頻。但在現(xiàn)實(shí)世界中，飛機(jī)不會像在競技場戰(zhàn)斗中那樣進(jìn)行狗斗。它們在一個(gè)戰(zhàn)區(qū)交火，勝負(fù)取決于戰(zhàn)斗機(jī)擁有什么樣的支援。誰擁有更好的數(shù)據(jù)，即知道敵人在哪里、有多少、多高、多快等等，誰就是贏家。

Because as I said, planes don’t fight by themselves. Today, the planes will be preceded by drones carrying ATA (air to air) missiles. Very long range ATA missiles and GTA (ground to air) missiles. There will also be drones with IR, radar, etc. Drones with ECM (electronic counter measure).

因?yàn)檎缥宜f，飛機(jī)不會獨(dú)自作戰(zhàn)。如今，飛機(jī)前方會有攜帶空對空（ATA）導(dǎo)彈的無人機(jī)。非常遠(yuǎn)程的空對空導(dǎo)彈和地對空（GTA）導(dǎo)彈。還會有攜帶紅外、雷達(dá)等的無人機(jī)。以及帶有電子對抗（ECM）措施的無人機(jī)。

Which ever side can deny the other side information and gather the most information will most likely win.

哪一方能封鎖對方情報(bào)并收集最多信息，哪一方就最有可能獲勝。

Which means that the battle location will likely determine the winner. If it is near China, then the US is totally screwed. If it is in the middle of the Ocean, then it depends on the numbers and what is involved in the battle. If it is near the US then China would be screwed.

這意味著戰(zhàn)場位置很可能決定勝負(fù)。如果靠近中國，那美國就完蛋了。如果在大洋中間，那就取決于數(shù)量和參戰(zhàn)力量。如果靠近美國，那中國就完蛋了。

Bengt Persson
It’s hard to gain much additional knowledge from a crashed plane. I then suppose US has a “SW self-destruct” mechanism, that erases all SW, manuals and crypto-keys in case of a crash.

很難從一架墜毀的飛機(jī)中獲得太多額外知識。那么我猜想美國有“軟件自毀”機(jī)制，在墜機(jī)時(shí)刪除所有軟件、手冊和加密密鑰。

Almost all details of the physical appearance of the plane has been published. More info on that is hardly interesting.

飛機(jī)物理外觀的幾乎所有細(xì)節(jié)都已公布。關(guān)于這方面的更多信息幾乎沒什么意思。

Performance for the different components can be are found in sales material. Looking at the device will hardly give any better information. Even starting it, it will not be possible to deduct actual performance without the SW that control it and process results.

不同部件的性能可以在銷售材料中找到。查看設(shè)備本身幾乎不會提供任何更好的信息。即使能啟動它，沒有控制它和處理結(jié)果的軟件，也不可能推導(dǎo)出實(shí)際性能。

Most of the really essential information is digital. Like SW that control instability that will tell detailed information about actual turning radius in different flight conditions. Or how the designers made sensor integration work in practice.

真正重要的信息大多是數(shù)字化的。比如控制不穩(wěn)定性的軟件，它會告訴你不同飛行條件下的實(shí)際轉(zhuǎn)彎半徑等詳細(xì)信息?；蛘咴O(shè)計(jì)師如何在實(shí)踐中實(shí)現(xiàn)傳感器融合。

Though, one thing that is not published and they will learn is what the stealth coating used consist of.

不過，有一項(xiàng)未公布的東西他們會學(xué)到，那就是所用隱身涂層的成分。

Jon Mixon
Moderately useful.

中等有用。

However what a number of these answers seem to be overlooking is that China has something more useful than a wrecked aircraft: They had boatloads of cash.

然而，許多回答似乎忽略了一點(diǎn)，那就是中國擁有比一架墜毀飛機(jī)更有用的東西：他們有大量的現(xiàn)金。

There are hundreds of thousands of pages of technical materials, maintenance records, parts lists, and assorted test data that the Chinese can either locate and buy; or they can sit around and wait for a greedy or disgruntled former contractor or service member to offer them. Both would save them BILLIONS in R&D costs, it would point out issues that the Department of Defense is keeping secret from the general public, and it might even assist them in making a slightly better product.

有成千上萬頁的技術(shù)材料、維護(hù)記錄、零件清單和各種測試數(shù)據(jù)，中國人可以找到并購買；或者他們可以坐等貪婪或心懷不滿的前承包商或服役人員主動提供給他們。這兩種方式都能為他們節(jié)省數(shù)十億美元的研發(fā)成本，能指出國防部向公眾保密的問題，甚至可能幫助他們制造出稍好一點(diǎn)的產(chǎn)品。

So if C wanted to know HOW to manufacture aircraft like the F-22 or the F-35 they can buy all of the available information. Unfortunately for the C government, high levels of corruption, a lack of motivation, and their stifling of creativity, means that even with the available data, it would take them years to copy one of the aircraft and the final results would likely be questionable.

所以，如果C想知道如何制造像F-22或F-35這樣的飛機(jī)，他們可以購買所有可用的信息。不幸的是，對C政府來說，高度的fb、缺乏動力以及他們對創(chuàng)造力的壓制，意味著即使有了可用數(shù)據(jù)，他們也需要數(shù)年時(shí)間來復(fù)制其中一架飛機(jī)，而且最終結(jié)果很可能令人懷疑。

When spying meets R&D, spying usually wins the battle. However it rarely wins the war.

當(dāng)間諜活動遇到研發(fā)時(shí)，間諜活動通常能贏得戰(zhàn)役。但它很少能贏得戰(zhàn)爭。

Bryan Robertson
They’d be able to get an accurate bead on the passive stealth characteristics and would get a general idea on the electronics - also would be able to test recent intelligence drops against the platform to see how accurate and how much misinformation they had on the stealth programs.

他們將能夠準(zhǔn)確掌握被動隱身特性，并對電子設(shè)備有個(gè)大致了解——還能夠用這個(gè)平臺來測試最近獲得的情報(bào)，看看他們掌握的隱身項(xiàng)目情報(bào)有多準(zhǔn)確，有多少是錯誤信息。

Complete reverse engineering would be rather difficult and would need serious breaches of US sources in order to make headway in a couple of decades.

完全逆向工程將相當(dāng)困難，需要嚴(yán)重突破美國的消息來源，才能在幾十年內(nèi)取得進(jìn)展。

William PY Liew
A fully intact fighter jet is of course worth much more than a crushed jet. That’s why the Ukrainian comedian is so persistent & insistent in asking & begging for fighter jets from the USA so that he can sell them (and other military weapons, equipment & Hardwares) in the extremely lucrative & thriving black market.

一架完全完好的戰(zhàn)斗機(jī)當(dāng)然比一架壓扁的飛機(jī)值錢得多。這就是為什么那位烏克蘭喜劇演員如此堅(jiān)持不懈地要求并乞求美國提供戰(zhàn)斗機(jī)，以便他能在極其有利可圖且繁榮的黑市上出售它們（以及其他軍用武器、設(shè)備和硬件）。

Matt Kiddoo
That answer is NOT Zero. So please don’t listen to anyone that says that. There would be useful information & technologies that could possibly learn from the crashed airfrxs. How much I don’t know because I don’t know how much the Chinese already know about those two aircraft. There is a rumor that some of the F-35 information was compromised by hacking by the Chinese. If true I doubt that we will learn how much or what exactly because some of it is classified and the US is not going to let others know what was hacked or if the hackers got information that is relevant now.

答案絕不是零。所以請不要聽信任何說零的人。從墜毀的機(jī)身中還是可能學(xué)到有用的信息和技術(shù)。具體有多少我不知道，因?yàn)槲也磺宄袊藢@兩架飛機(jī)已經(jīng)了解多少。有傳言說部分F-35信息被中國黑客入侵泄露了。如果屬實(shí)，我懷疑我們不會知道具體有多少或具體是什么，因?yàn)槠渲幸恍┦菣C(jī)密，而且美國不會讓別人知道什么被黑了，或者黑客是否拿到了現(xiàn)在仍有價(jià)值的信息。

The US Aircraft Manufacturing Industry does some stuff different that the Chinese, so they’d learn that. They’d also learn how better to defeat either aircraft in combat.

美國飛機(jī)制造業(yè)有些做法與中國不同，所以他們會學(xué)到這些。他們還會學(xué)到如何在戰(zhàn)斗中更好地?fù)魯∵@兩種飛機(jī)。

It all depends on how damaged the crashed airfrxs are. There was supposedly a lot learned from the crashed F-117 that was shot down over the Balkans in 1999. Both Russia & China gleaned information from that airfrx.

這都取決于墜毀機(jī)身的損壞程度。據(jù)說從1999年在巴爾干上空被擊落的F-117殘骸中學(xué)到了很多東西。俄羅斯和中國都從那架殘骸中收集了信息。

I don’t believe the Chinese stealth aircraft are as advanced as either of the F-22 or the F-35 because both Russia & China tend to take more conventional & simple approaches to building their aircraft than the US. So they would learn something & it would prove useful. And they depending on how useful it is to the Chinese they’d either keep it to themselves or if they didn’t find it useful and already knew about it then they might sell the information to Russia or another country.

我不認(rèn)為中國的隱形飛機(jī)有F-22或F-35那么先進(jìn)，因?yàn)槎砹_斯和中國在飛機(jī)制造上往往比美國采取更傳統(tǒng)、更簡單的方法。所以他們會學(xué)到一些東西，而且會被證明是有用的。而中國人會根據(jù)這些信息對他們的有用程度，要么秘而不宣，要么如果覺得沒用或者已經(jīng)知道，就可能會把信息賣給俄羅斯或其他國家。

Donald Canton
Zero.

零。

China doesn’t need those crashed worthless junk machines for research anymore. F22 is too old. F35 has too many problems. Americans should be very proud of them as their old glories for display in the museum only. China has already been able to design and build their world-class high-tech machines on its own with its best wind tunnel systems and supercomputers and semiconductor and material industries.

中國不再需要那些墜毀的無價(jià)值垃圾機(jī)器進(jìn)行研究。F22太老了。F35問題太多。美國人應(yīng)該為它們感到非常自豪，把它們當(dāng)作只能在博物館展示的昔日榮光。中國已經(jīng)能夠憑借其最好的風(fēng)洞系統(tǒng)、超級計(jì)算機(jī)以及半導(dǎo)體和材料工業(yè)，自主設(shè)計(jì)和建造世界級的高科技機(jī)器。

The Chinese scientists and engineers are too busy working on the next better system research and development projects and programs to waste their time and money on the old worthless foreign systems. They just improve their own systems and start up something new from scratch as their top national security secrets that no foreigners know.

中國的科學(xué)家和工程師們正忙于進(jìn)行下一代更優(yōu)系統(tǒng)的研發(fā)項(xiàng)目和計(jì)劃，沒時(shí)間也沒金錢浪費(fèi)在老舊無價(jià)值的外國系統(tǒng)上。他們只是改進(jìn)自己的系統(tǒng)，并從頭開始打造全新的東西，作為最高國家機(jī)密，外國人無從知曉。

For example, a group of Chinese scientists and a PhD student built the world first advanced artificial intelligence robotic cat and mouse game with their new hardware and software systems.

例如，一組中國科學(xué)家和一名博士生用他們新的硬件和軟件系統(tǒng)，建造了世界上首個(gè)先進(jìn)的人工智能機(jī)器人貓鼠游戲。

China has been very interesting to all the scientists in the world. What a nice surprise.

中國一直讓全世界的科學(xué)家都感到非常有趣。真是個(gè)驚喜。

Where have all the latest American inventions been hidden? The Chinese can’t make a copy or steal but have to invent the new ones themselves. Sorry for the Americans who lost the world class top position and title to the Chinese.

所有美國的最新發(fā)明都藏到哪里去了？中國人無法復(fù)制或偷竊，只能自己發(fā)明新的。為那些將世界頂級地位和頭銜輸給中國人的美國人感到遺憾。

Americans could make guesses and always conclude that China were so inferior to the USA.

美國人可以猜測，并總是得出中國遠(yuǎn)不如美國的結(jié)論。

Steve Lussing
Not very. They have no interest in reverse engineering a plane that has never seen combat and routinely spontaneously falls out of the sky and into the sea, or that slides off of an AC. The fact that you know that I'm referring to the F-35 says something to that. Ejecting out of a jet fighter hurts, you know.

不太有用。他們對逆向工程一架從未參加過實(shí)戰(zhàn)、經(jīng)常自己就從天上掉進(jìn)海里、或者從航母上滑下去的飛機(jī)沒興趣。你知道我指的是F-35這個(gè)事實(shí)就說明了問題。你知道，從戰(zhàn)斗機(jī)里彈射出來是很疼的。

Neither is China interested in reverse engineering a fighter which is out of production and which is more or less considered obsolete by the forces from the country of origin.

中國對逆向工程一架已停產(chǎn)、并且或多或少被原產(chǎn)國軍隊(duì)認(rèn)為過時(shí)的戰(zhàn)斗機(jī)也沒興趣。

If you know the Chinese at all then you know that they are fully up to the challenge of producing a superior product that doesn't routinely fall out of the sky or get wrinkled skin from flying at high velocities. China is far more modern than US. China has over 40,000 km of high speed rail where America has about 100 km of ‘high speed’ rail. America should stop thinking that it’s better than China. It isn't.

如果你了解中國人，你就知道他們完全有能力生產(chǎn)出不會經(jīng)常從天上掉下來、也不會因?yàn)楦咚亠w行而“起皺蒙皮”的優(yōu)質(zhì)產(chǎn)品。中國比美國現(xiàn)代得多。中國擁有超過4萬公里的高速鐵路，而美國只有大約100公里的所謂“高速”鐵路。美國應(yīng)該停止認(rèn)為自己比中國好。它并不是。