你同意“中國一線城市比東京或首爾更先進”這個說法嗎？
Do you agree with "Tier 1 cities of China are more advanced than Tokyo or Seoul" take?
譯文簡介
我上一次去一線城市還是2019年底，就在新冠疫情爆發(fā)前。
正文翻譯
Do you agree with "Tier 1 cities of China are more advanced than Tokyo or Seoul" take?
你同意“中國一線城市比東京或首爾更先進”這個說法嗎？
The last time I visited a Tier 1 city was Beijing in late 2019, just before the COVID-19 pandemic struck. So maybe I got a bit outdated in 5 years, because I was surprised by a comment from another redditor:
>I don’t know why you’re being downvoted Shanghai, Beijing, Guangzhou, and even not so large cities like xiamen etc. are **far more advanced than anywhere else in the world**. The only City I’d rate more developed than the large cities in China is Singapore, which is still definitely #1
Essentially, his take is that only Singapore is better than the Tier 1 cities of China, and even Tier 2 xiamen(???). Which means by his logic, Tokyo and Seoul are "less advanced" than the Tier 1 cities of China. I did some profile stalking and found that it was "western tankies" that I was arguing with.
But now I wonder what actual Chinese people think about how advanced their Tier-1 cities have become compared to the top cities of developed Asia? Singapore, Seoul, Tokyo, Taipei. Maybe HK(?), but I have a weird perception of HK: it is a vibrant city to visit, but a weird taxation system through the municipal land sale hinders QoL.
我上一次去一線城市還是2019年底，就在新冠疫情爆發(fā)前。所以可能五年過去了，我的看法有點過時了，因為我被另一位Reddit網(wǎng)友的評論給驚到了：
“我不知道你為什么被踩。上海、北京、廣州，甚至像廈門這樣不那么大的城市都**比世界上任何其他地方要先進得多**。唯一我覺得比中國大城市更發(fā)達的只有新加坡，它絕對是第一名。”
基本上，他的觀點是只有新加坡比中國一線城市更好，甚至廈門（？？？）這個二線城市都比別處強。按他的邏輯，這意味著東京和首爾比中國一線城市“落后”。我翻了翻他的資料，發(fā)現(xiàn)和我爭論的是個“西方tankie”（西方國家的極左翼親中人士）。
但現(xiàn)在我想知道，真正的中國人是怎么看待他們的一線城市與亞洲發(fā)達地區(qū)頂級城市（新加坡、首爾、東京、臺北）相比的先進程度呢？或許還有香港（特區(qū)）（？）不過我對香港（特區(qū)）的看法有點奇怪：它是一個充滿活力的旅游城市，但通過賣地形成的奇怪稅收體系阻礙了生活質(zhì)量。
你同意“中國一線城市比東京或首爾更先進”這個說法嗎？
The last time I visited a Tier 1 city was Beijing in late 2019, just before the COVID-19 pandemic struck. So maybe I got a bit outdated in 5 years, because I was surprised by a comment from another redditor:
>I don’t know why you’re being downvoted Shanghai, Beijing, Guangzhou, and even not so large cities like xiamen etc. are **far more advanced than anywhere else in the world**. The only City I’d rate more developed than the large cities in China is Singapore, which is still definitely #1
Essentially, his take is that only Singapore is better than the Tier 1 cities of China, and even Tier 2 xiamen(???). Which means by his logic, Tokyo and Seoul are "less advanced" than the Tier 1 cities of China. I did some profile stalking and found that it was "western tankies" that I was arguing with.
But now I wonder what actual Chinese people think about how advanced their Tier-1 cities have become compared to the top cities of developed Asia? Singapore, Seoul, Tokyo, Taipei. Maybe HK(?), but I have a weird perception of HK: it is a vibrant city to visit, but a weird taxation system through the municipal land sale hinders QoL.
我上一次去一線城市還是2019年底，就在新冠疫情爆發(fā)前。所以可能五年過去了，我的看法有點過時了，因為我被另一位Reddit網(wǎng)友的評論給驚到了：
“我不知道你為什么被踩。上海、北京、廣州，甚至像廈門這樣不那么大的城市都**比世界上任何其他地方要先進得多**。唯一我覺得比中國大城市更發(fā)達的只有新加坡，它絕對是第一名。”
基本上，他的觀點是只有新加坡比中國一線城市更好，甚至廈門（？？？）這個二線城市都比別處強。按他的邏輯，這意味著東京和首爾比中國一線城市“落后”。我翻了翻他的資料，發(fā)現(xiàn)和我爭論的是個“西方tankie”（西方國家的極左翼親中人士）。
但現(xiàn)在我想知道，真正的中國人是怎么看待他們的一線城市與亞洲發(fā)達地區(qū)頂級城市（新加坡、首爾、東京、臺北）相比的先進程度呢？或許還有香港（特區(qū)）（？）不過我對香港（特區(qū)）的看法有點奇怪：它是一個充滿活力的旅游城市，但通過賣地形成的奇怪稅收體系阻礙了生活質(zhì)量。
評論翻譯
很贊 ( 17 )
收藏
Likes: 67
It really depends on which aspects you consider. The Chinese cities have far more advanced stuff, but at the same time you still cant drink the tap water.
這真的取決于你從哪個方面來看。中國城市有很多遠比別處先進的東西，但與此同時，你仍然不能直接喝自來水。
Pandaburn
Likes: 4
I’m curious how bad the tap water actually is, or is only drinking boiled water just a cultural thing? It could be completely safe, and many people would still only drink boiled water I think.
Btw I am not saying I know it is safe, I’m just wondering.
我很好奇中國的自來水到底有多糟，還是說只喝燒開的水純粹是一種文化習慣？也許水是完全安全的，但我想很多人可能還是只會喝開水。
順便說一句，我不是說我知道自來水安全，我只是好奇。
NFossil
Likes: 2
Tradition against western biological warfare.
這是抵御西方生物戰(zhàn)的傳統(tǒng)。
Dramatic_Security3
Likes: 29
I think it very much depends on what you mean. A lot of Tokyo, for example is extremely old-school and the idea that people there are living in the future is a very American thing. They still use cash for everything, all their trains are manned, a lot of things that are automated in China are still done by people there. So the argument could definitely be made. I can't speak to xiamen specifically, but Fuzhou, is like that as well, though there is still a lot of stuff that could be improved as with anywhere.
我覺得這很大程度上取決于你說的“先進”是什么意思。比如，東京很多地方就非常傳統(tǒng)守舊，那種覺得日本人生活在未來的想法其實是非常美式的看法。他們?nèi)匀坏教幱矛F(xiàn)金，所有的列車都有人駕駛，很多在中國已經(jīng)自動化的事情在那里還是靠人工。所以，（中國城市更先進的）這個論點絕對是站得住腳的。我沒去過廈門所以不清楚，但福州也是這樣，當然和所有地方一樣，它也有很多需要改進的地方。
rdem341
Likes: 11
Most American cities are far behind, compared to Tokyo.
和東京比，大多數(shù)美國城市都遠遠落后了。
Dramatic_Security3
Likes: 23
Most American cities are far behind everywhere.
大多數(shù)美國城市跟哪兒比都遠遠落后。
PaintedScottishWoods
Likes: 10
Maybe, maybe not.
Most American cities don’t require any physical cash, and you can drink water from almost any tap. In addition, public bathrooms are free, access to drinkable water is free and legally may not be restricted, and disability access is absolutely first in the world.
By these metrics, American cities are far ahead of most cities in the world.
It all depends on which metrics you value the most.
也許是，也許不是。
大多數(shù)美國城市不需要任何實體現(xiàn)金，而且你幾乎可以從任何水龍頭喝水。此外，公共廁所是免費的，獲取飲用水也是免費的且法律上不得限制，殘疾人無障礙設(shè)施絕對是世界第一。
按照這些標準，美國城市遙遙領(lǐng)先于世界上大多數(shù)城市。
這完全取決于你最看重哪些指標。
DG_Insomnia
Likes: 5
This is a horrible take in all aspects.
Most modern cities don’t require physical cash for general items. It has been the cases for a while. Americans adopted this system much later than the rest of the modern world (only within a decade which is pretty fast in u.s time) but this is a push from private corporations
You can drink tap water also in most of the modern world. Whether you get sick depends where you are in the country and the length of time.
Besides Europe, where are public bathrooms not free?
Idk why this is even a statement. There technically aren’t even many public restrooms as they’re all restrooms within a private building like the mall or a store which is free in majority of the world if not about all.
America does have strong disability regulation, but it’s not implemented publicly. It’s more for private orgs to comply with. Public infrastructure was not made with disability in mind
這觀點在所有方面都糟透了。
大多數(shù)現(xiàn)代城市買普通東西都不需要實體現(xiàn)金了。這已經(jīng)是很久之前的事了。美國采納這套系統(tǒng)比其他現(xiàn)代世界晚得多（也就是近十年的事，按美國速度算挺快了），而且這還是私營公司推動的。
在大多數(shù)現(xiàn)代世界，你也能喝自來水。會不會生病取決于你在哪個國家以及待了多久。
除了歐洲，哪里還有收費的公共廁所？
我不知道為什么這都算一個論點。嚴格來說，美國甚至沒有多少公共廁所，因為它們都是在商場或商店等私人建筑里的衛(wèi)生間，這在世界上絕大多數(shù)地方（如果不是全部的話）都是免費的。
美國確實有強力的殘疾人法規(guī)，但這并沒有在公共領(lǐng)域?qū)嵤?。它更多是要求私營機構(gòu)遵守。公共基礎(chǔ)設(shè)施在建設(shè)時并沒有考慮到殘疾人的需求。
Otherwise-Bid621
Likes: 2
If you think unmanned trains is the way forward and somehow more superior to a properly staffed rail & subway network then you are an idiot mate. 100%
如果你認為無人駕駛列車是未來的方向，并且在某種程度上比配備了充足員工的鐵路和地鐵網(wǎng)絡(luò)更優(yōu)越，那你就是個白癡，伙計。百分之百是。
Dramatic_Security3
Likes: 1
Are you for real? Nearly every new metro line on the planet as been GoA 3 or 4 for the last 50 years. It's not just the way forward, it's longstanding international best practice. It's both cheaper and safer than having human drivers, reduces delays, allows higher off-peak frequencies, and therefore increases ridership. There is no tangible benefit to having drivers on the trains other than as a jobs program, in which case you should have those people doing something that's actually productive.
你是認真的嗎？過去50年里，地球上幾乎每一條新的地鐵線路都是GoA 3或4級（自動運行等級）。這不僅是未來的方向，它還是長期以來的國際最佳實踐。它比人工駕駛更便宜、更安全，能減少延誤，允許在非高峰期增加班次，從而提高客流量。在列車上配備司機除了作為一種就業(yè)計劃外，沒有任何實際的好處，那樣的話，你應該讓那些人去做一些真正有生產(chǎn)力的事情。
Van_Darklholme
Likes: 19
Criteria are important in any comparison.
For "more advanced", I would have the following criteria:
1. Median education level
2. Public transit capacity
3. Traffic and urban design optimization
4. Access to global brands, products and services
5. City services (such as universal payment cards and construction efficiency)
6. Early adoption rate of technology (such as new payment methods, better traffic control devices, more effective law enforcement tech, etc.)
7. Access to international travel
8. Number of new businesses or businesses offering niche services and products (indicating high consumption and low barrier to entrepreneurship which drives both economic and technological progress)
9. Median income of the core urban area
10. Social acceptance of different identities (race, gender, religion, etc.)
While I don't have an opinion on which city is more advanced, I will say that Beijing looks a hell of a lot different now compared to '19.
任何比較中，標準都很重要。
對于“更先進”，我會使用以下標準：
1. 教育水平中位數(shù)
2. 公共交通承載能力
3. 交通和城市設(shè)計優(yōu)化
4. 獲取全球品牌、產(chǎn)品和服務(wù)的渠道
5. 城市服務(wù)（如通用支付卡和建設(shè)效率）
6. 技術(shù)的早期采納率（如新的支付方式、更好的交通控制設(shè)備、更有效的執(zhí)法技術(shù)等）
7. 國際旅行的便利性
8. 新企業(yè)或提供小眾服務(wù)和產(chǎn)品的企業(yè)數(shù)量（這表明消費水平高、創(chuàng)業(yè)門檻低，從而推動經(jīng)濟和技術(shù)進步）
9. 核心城區(qū)的收入中位數(shù)
10. 對不同身份（種族、性別、宗教等）的社會接受度
雖然我對哪個城市更先進沒有定論，但我要說，現(xiàn)在的北京和19年相比，看起來可大不一樣了。
KartFacedThaoDien
Likes: 11
Why isn’t access to and quality of healthcare listed? Along hygiene and quality of food, water and pollution levels.
為什么沒有列出醫(yī)療保健的可及性和質(zhì)量？以及衛(wèi)生、食品質(zhì)量、水質(zhì)和污染水平。
Van_Darklholme
Likes: 10
Because that depends too much on the healthcare model and the size of the population. You can argue for either accessibility (cost) or quality, but no place has both.
因為這太依賴于醫(yī)療模式和人口規(guī)模了。你可以追求可及性（低成本）或高質(zhì)量，但沒有一個地方能兩者兼得。
WaysOfG
Likes: 22
I question why Singapore is rated so high.
Taipei is rather run down and would be a solid tier 2-3 city in China.
Tokyo is rather unique and I don't think is even comparable to anywhere else in the world.
我質(zhì)疑為什么新加坡的評分這么高。
臺北相當破舊，在中國也就是個穩(wěn)穩(wěn)的二三線城市水平。
東京則相當獨特，我認為它和世界上任何其他地方都沒有可比性。
Alexexy
Likes: 11
I didnt find Taipei run down at all. Place is really clean and the public transit is clean and new.
Not as many people as I thought that there would be though.
我一點都不覺得臺北破舊。那個地方很干凈，公共交通也干凈又新。
不過人比我想象的要少。
yotuw
Likes: 6
Really? Which part of Taipei did you visit? I experienced Shibuya levels of crowding while I was there. It was shocking considering how low the population is. The place is clean, but the infrastructure is definitely run down.
真的嗎？你去了臺北哪個區(qū)？我在那里的時候體驗到了澀谷級別的擁擠?？紤]到它的人口這么少，這還挺讓人震驚的。地方是干凈，但基礎(chǔ)設(shè)施絕對是破舊了。
Alexexy
Likes: 1
Like the area near Taipei 101? We went to a bunch of different places including the museum with Chinese artifacts and Chiang Kai Shek Memorial Hall.
是臺北101附近的區(qū)域嗎？我們?nèi)チ撕芏嗖煌牡胤?，包括有中國文物的那個博物館和中正紀念堂。
MukdenMan
Likes: 1
A lot of buildings are old and not maintained well but wouldn’t say overall that the infrastructure is run down. Public transit is modern. The city is clean. The main thing people complain about is the shabby older apartment buildings and the narrow streets without sidewalks in some areas. There hasn’t been as much urban renewal.
Incidentally, a lot of people in China say that Hong Kong is run down and looks like an older Chinese city.
很多建筑老舊且維護不善，但不能說整體基礎(chǔ)設(shè)施都破敗了。公共交通是現(xiàn)代的。城市很干凈。人們主要抱怨的是那些破舊的老公寓樓和一些地區(qū)沒有人行道的狹窄街道。城市更新做得不夠。
順便說一句，很多中國人都說香港（特區(qū)）很破舊，看起來像一個老舊的中國城市。
One_Community6740
Likes: 3
To be fair, the list of developed economies in Asia is kinda small, so I had to bring up Taipei. I had been in Taipei for only 1.5 days during a layover, so I do not have much strong opinion about it. Just wanted to hear what the Chinese think about it.
For me, HK is too unique and hard to compare with other cities. I like it, I would love to live there for a couple of years as a rich expat, but then it is too dystopian for average Joe.
說句公道話，亞洲發(fā)達經(jīng)濟體的名單有點短，所以我不得不提到臺北。我只是在中途轉(zhuǎn)機時在臺北待了1.5天，所以對它沒有太強烈的看法。只是想聽聽中國人是怎么看它的。
對我來說，香港（特區(qū)）太獨特了，很難和其他城市比較。我喜歡它，我很樂意作為一個富有的外派人員在那里住上幾年，但對于普通人來說，它又太反烏托邦了。
Sorry_Sort6059
Likes: 12
I've been to Seoul multiple times for work, and based on my personal observations, it feels comparable at best to China's "quasi-first-tier" cities. I just checked the data, and even in terms of GDP, it only reaches the level of China's quasi-first-tier cities. I'm genuinely curious - why does the West hype up Seoul so much? What specific aspects make you consider Seoul developed? I'm just trying to understand this obxtively.
As for Japan being okay, I don't have any issues with that, except for the fact that their government only stopped using floppy disks last year.
Edit, I looked up some photos I took in Seoul before, and saying it's a quasi-first-tier city is already being polite
https://preview.redd.it/7wsf23apl2cf1.png?width=1650&format=png&auto=webp&s=75ab080c0310f10e323d5e07ae9a88ce68a13df0
我因工作去過首爾很多次，根據(jù)我的個人觀察，它充其量也就和中國的“新一線”城市相當。我剛查了數(shù)據(jù)，即使在GDP方面，它也只達到了中國新一線城市的水平。我真的很好奇——為什么西方這么吹捧首爾？具體是哪些方面讓你們覺得首爾發(fā)達？我只是想客觀地了解一下。
至于日本還行，我沒什么意見，除了他們的政府去年才停止使用軟盤。
編輯：我翻看了以前在首爾拍的一些照片，說它是個新一線城市已經(jīng)算客氣了。
Sensitive_Goose_8902
Likes: 14
Cities in South Korea and Japan get hyped up way more in western nations purely for political purposes, Tokyo is just gigantic. I’ve seen people that believe China doesn’t have phones
韓國和日本的城市在西方國家被過度吹捧純粹是出于政治目的，東京本身確實是巨大的。我還見過有人相信中國沒有電話。
SchweppesCreamSoda
Likes: 5
I had a Korean couple a few weeks ago, express shock that China produces cell phones and EV cars. I thought they were living under a rock
幾周前，有一對韓國夫婦對中國生產(chǎn)手機和電動汽車表示震驚。我以為他們是活在山洞里。
Healthy_Shine_8587
Likes: 5
I mean there's streets all over shanghai like this, just not the main streets.
我的意思是，上海到處都是這樣的街道，只是不在主干道上而已。
kimgp
Likes: 1
I am Korean. Born in Seoul, lived in Tokyo, used to visit Shanghai often because my partner back then taught in uni there.
I think solely based on downtown, Tokyo and Seoul has no chance competing with Shanghai. It is futuristic, modern and historical all at once.
Visiting Shanghai downtown was one of the most shocking experiences in my life. I remember mumbling to myself “oh so they really are going to take over huh”
But gradually you realise the city is rather…boring. I think maybe in a decade Shanghai can solve this but you tend to run out of things to do very fast compared to in Tokyo or Seoul. Cafes and restaurants are gorgeous, bars have stunning views.. but after the first trip I found myself basically repeating the cafe-restaurant-cafe cycle because I didn’t know what else to do. Based on what my partner back then said, the sentiment was not rare for those who frequently visit the city or actually live there
我是韓國人。在首爾出生，在東京住過，以前經(jīng)常去上海，因為我當時的對象在上海的大學教書。
我覺得單從市中心來看，東京和首爾根本沒法和上海競爭。上海集未來感、現(xiàn)代感和歷史感于一身。
參觀上海市中心是我一生中最震撼的經(jīng)歷之一。我記得我對自己喃喃自語：“哦，所以他們真的要掌控一切了，哈。”
但你逐漸會意識到這個城市相當……無聊。我想也許十年后上海能解決這個問題，但與東京或首爾相比，你很快就沒什么事可做了?？Х瑞^和餐廳很華麗，酒吧的景色很美……但第一次旅行后，我發(fā)現(xiàn)自己基本上就在重復“咖啡館-餐廳-咖啡館”的循環(huán)，因為我不知道還能做什么。根據(jù)我當時對象所說，對于那些經(jīng)常訪問或?qū)嶋H居住在那里的人來說，這種感覺并不少見。
random_agency
Likes: 7
In the last year I've been to Osaka, Taipei, xi'an, Shenzhen, Beijing, xinjiang.
I would have to agree Tier 1 and New Tier 1 cities in China are way more advanced these days.
There's no metal detector, x-ray scanner, and bio weapon detectors in every train station outside of China.
Fintech in China is now light years ahead of developed countries.
去年我去過大阪、臺北、西安、深圳、北京和新疆。
我不得不同意，如今中國的一線和新一線城市要先進得多。
在中國以外的任何火車站，都沒有金屬探測器、X光安檢機和生化武器探測器。
中國的金融科技現(xiàn)在領(lǐng)先發(fā)達國家好幾年。
One_Community6740
Likes: 11
>I would have to agree Tier 1 and New Tier 1 cities in China are way more advanced these days.
>There's no metal detector, x-ray scanner, and bio weapon detectors in every train station outside of China.
Wait, in your opinion, having those things in train stations makes cities more advanced?
>我不得不同意，如今中國的一線和新一線城市要先進得多。
>在中國以外的任何火車站，都沒有金屬探測器、X光安檢機和生化武器探測器。
等等，在你看來，火車站里有這些東西就意味著城市更先進？
random_agency
Likes: 13
Suicide door, LCD monitors, every station with unarmed security and cleaning staff, ecorts for handicap riders, free rides for the edlerly...
Let's take NYC MTA subways as a comparison. No suicide doors, no security or staff in many stations, homeless and mentally ill everywhere in the subway, just dirty and playing Russian roulette just going down the hole.
So to the average redditor they think USA and NYC, they think advance modern financial capital of the world.
But those of more well traveled New Yorkers know the real deal. China, in terms of personal safety and convenience, is way more advanced these days.
Even ordering things with Chinese restaurants are easier. QR code menu and ordering system. Never have to argue over orders being placed incorrectly.
站臺安全門、液晶顯示屏、每個車站都有不配槍的安保和清潔人員、為殘疾乘客提供的護送服務(wù)、老年人免費乘車……
我們拿紐約地鐵來對比一下。沒有安全門，很多車站沒有安保或工作人員，地鐵里到處是無家可歸者和精神病患者，又臟又亂，下去坐個車跟玩俄羅斯輪盤賭一樣。
所以，一般的Reddit網(wǎng)友一提到美國和紐約，就覺得是世界先進的現(xiàn)代金融之都。
但那些見多識廣的紐約客才知道真相。在人身安全和便利性方面，如今的中國要先進得多。
甚至在中餐館點餐都更容易。二維碼菜單和點餐系統(tǒng)，再也不用為點錯單而爭論了。
One_Community6740
Likes: 6
>Suicide door, LCD monitors, every station with unarmed security and cleaning staff, ecorts for handicap riders, free rides for the edlerly...
I agree with these. But metal detectors and X-ray scanners(especially in metro stations) for me are a necessary evil at best.
>站臺安全門、液晶顯示屏、每個車站都有不配槍的安保和清潔人員、為殘疾乘客提供的護送服務(wù)、老年人免費乘車……
這些我同意。但對我來說，金屬探測器和X光安檢機（尤其是在地鐵站）充其量只是一種必要的惡。
random_agency
Likes: 8
Why? Would you rather take care of a threat before it happens.
Or be like NYC. Every day, someone is stabbed or assaulted in the MTA. People jumping in front of a subway train isn't that uncommon either in NYC. They even use euphemism like "man under" to cover up some mentally ill person decided to take it upon themselves to cause a system wide train delay. Something suicide doors could solve.
為什么？你難道不想在威脅發(fā)生前就處理掉它嗎？
還是想像紐約市那樣？每天都有人在地鐵里被刺傷或襲擊。在紐約，有人跳軌也不是什么稀罕事。他們甚至用“軌道有人”這樣的委婉說法來掩蓋一些精神病患者自己決定造成全系統(tǒng)列車延誤的事實。而站臺安全門就能解決這個問題。
PrometheusUnchain
Likes: 1
American take. You never know who is packing hence feeling safer with metal detectors.
Speaks volume on the American headspace.
美式思維。你永遠不知道誰帶著家伙，所以有金屬探測器會感覺更安全。
這很能說明美國人的精神狀態(tài)。
random_agency
Likes: 1
I'm NYC, and guns have been becoming a problem in recent years. But it's really the box cutters that perps like to carry.
Just watch NYC news for a week or install an APP that follows crime in NYC. You'd be surprised.
我就是紐約的，槍支近年來確實成了個問題。但罪犯們真正喜歡帶的是美工刀。
只要看一周的紐約新聞，或者裝一個追蹤紐約犯罪的APP，你就會大吃一驚。
Alexexy
Likes: 2
There's qr code menu and ordering systems in NYC also. Its oddly mainly in Chinese restaraunts in Flushing's Chinatown.
NYC structure is present but the infrastructure is so far behind. It looks and feels horrible to ride in comparison to Osaka, Tokyo, Taipei, and London.
Haven't been in china for about 10 years so haven't seen how far they have advanced since then, but even back then they were using RFID touchless scanners for payment.
紐約也有二維碼菜單和點餐系統(tǒng)。奇怪的是，這主要是在法拉盛唐人街的中餐館里。
紐約的城市骨架在，但基礎(chǔ)設(shè)施遠遠落后。與大阪、東京、臺北和倫敦的地鐵相比，乘坐體驗看起來和感覺上都糟透了。
我已經(jīng)有大約10年沒去過中國了，所以沒見過他們那之后發(fā)展了多少，但即使在當時，他們就已經(jīng)在用RFID非接觸式掃描器來支付了。
random_agency
Likes: 3
That's because Chinese immigrants brought these advances to Flushing. They also brought self ordering kiosk to some store, but not widely adopted.
Which is funny the only other group in NYC with self ordering kiosk is Fast Food chians.
I suspect the Chinese immigrants order their machines straight from China which reduces the cost of entry.
In addition I saw a robot server at Asian Jewel in Flushing.
Its the Chinese that are becoming first adopter of advance technology in the land of barbarians.
那是因為中國移民把這些先進玩意兒帶到了法拉盛。他們還給一些商店帶來了自助點餐機，但沒有被廣泛采用。
有趣的是，在紐約，唯一另一類有自助點餐機的地方就是快餐連鎖店。
我懷疑這些中國移民是直接從中國訂購機器，這降低了進入成本。
此外，我在法拉盛的敦城海鮮酒家看到了一個機器人服務(wù)員。
是在這片野蠻人土地上，中國人正在成為先進技術(shù)的首批采用者。
mintnoises
Likes: 1
>land of barbarians
>lives in NYC
bruh. this "advance technology" you speak of is just convenient pay systems (even rural gas stations have had Tap to Pay) and robot servers?? it's just a way to deliver food hahaha. how are you so impressed with cheap tricks, unless you are old and don't know much about real technology?
>野蠻人土地
>住在紐約
哥們。你說的這個“先進技術(shù)”不就是方便的支付系統(tǒng)（連農(nóng)村加油站都有“一觸即付”了）和機器人服務(wù)員嗎？？那只是個送餐的方式而已哈哈哈。你怎么會對這些小把戲如此印象深刻，除非你年紀大了，對真正的技術(shù)不太了解？
random_agency
Likes: 5
Just walk down the hole and see a naked homeless person try to jump onto the subway track.
Land of barbarians isn't far of the mark at that point.
你只要下到地鐵站，看到一個赤身裸體的流浪漢試圖跳到地鐵軌道上。
到那時候，“野蠻人土地”這個說法就離譜不到哪去了。
tributarybattles
Likes: 1
Coastal China is developed.
中國沿海地區(qū)是發(fā)達的。
random_agency
Likes: 5
New Tier 1 cities like xi'an is also developed.
There's a bunch of New Tier 1 cities in China now.
像西安這樣的新一線城市也很發(fā)達。
現(xiàn)在中國有一大批新一線城市。
Common_Caregiver_130
Likes: 1
Can you explain how fintech is light years ahead? Is it just QR codes? I use those every day to buy tacos in LA.
你能解釋一下金融科技是如何領(lǐng)先幾光年的嗎？就只是因為二維碼？我每天在洛杉磯買墨西哥卷餅都用二維碼。
random_agency
Likes: 2
Everything is rolled into Alipay or Wepay. But after scan a payment everything is pretty organized by category like hotel, didi, foods, etc. So you know where you spent your money.
In the US, you probably have at least 3. Apps tracking your financial. A bank app, at least 2 digital wallets.
Then, sometimes you want to know where you spent your money could be hellish is the seller uses an alternative name for an online sale.
A lot has to do with Visa, Mastercard and other credit companies in the US market space who are protective of their strangle gold on payments in the US.
Imagine you open PayPal or venmo and those taco are delivered to your location kind of convenience.
所有東西都整合進了支付寶或微信支付。掃碼支付后，所有消費都會按酒店、滴滴、餐飲等類別整理好。所以你知道你的錢花在了哪里。
在美國，你可能至少有3個應用來追蹤你的財務(wù)狀況。一個銀行應用，至少2個電子錢包。
然后，有時候你想知道錢花在哪了會很痛苦，因為賣家在網(wǎng)上銷售時會用一個別的名字。
這很大程度上與Visa、萬事達和美國市場上的其他信用卡公司有關(guān)，它們都在保護自己在美國支付領(lǐng)域的壟斷地位。
想象一下，你打開PayPal或Venmo，然后墨西哥卷餅就能送到你所在位置，就是那種便利。
greastick
Likes: 4
Why is Singapore rated so highly, I'd say Singapore is comparable to a tier 2 Chinese city at best.
There's so much more services and convenience available in tier 1 cities that Singapore is really not worth comparing to, at least hardware wise.
為什么新加坡評分這么高，我想說新加坡充其量也就和中國的二線城市相當。
一線城市提供的服務(wù)和便利多太多了，新加坡真的不值得拿來比較，至少在硬件方面是這樣。
Majestic-Wishbone642
Likes: 2
Out of curiosity, what services and conveniences would you think are missing from Singapore that you can find in tier 1 Chinese cities?
出于好奇，你認為新加坡缺少哪些在中國一線城市能找到的服務(wù)和便利呢？
Alexexy
Likes: 2
My in laws were there and my wife and I were really excited to check out Singapore.
In laws said that Singapore was nothing to be excited about and it was comparable to a smaller Fuzhou.
我岳父母去過那里，我妻子和我都非常興奮地想去看看新加坡。
岳父母說新加坡沒什么好激動的，和個小號的福州差不多。
IIZANAGII
Likes: 6
Seoul and Osaka are my favorite cities I’ve lived in but they’d be Tier 2 cities in China if we’re just talking about development and the general technical level of the city.
I’m living in Shenzhen now and the infrastructure and convenience is very obviously on another level.
Sure ,you can argue about culture or whatever but the actual city is obxtively advanced .
首爾和大阪是我住過的最喜歡的城市，但如果我們只談?wù)摪l(fā)展和城市的整體技術(shù)水平，它們在中國只能算二線城市。
我現(xiàn)在住在深圳，這里的基礎(chǔ)設(shè)施和便利性很明顯是另一個層級的。
當然，你可以爭論文化或其他什么，但就城市本身而言，它客觀上是先進的。
This_Expression5427
Likes: 3
I lived in China for 8 years and every time I went back to Canada it felt like the stone ages.
我在中國住了8年，每次回加拿大都感覺像是回到了石器時代。
Educational_Boss_633
Likes: 4
Shenzhen imo is the most advanced city I've been in in my lifetime. Only city in the world where it's quiet like a countryside because of the sheer amount of EV's on the road.
在我看來，深圳是我這輩子去過的最先進的城市。世界上唯一一個因為路上有大量的電動汽車而像鄉(xiāng)村一樣安靜的城市。
SnooMacarons9026
Likes: 2
If you take Chinese people out of the equation then yes. Otherwise, no. Too much villager behaviour and everyone fucking smokes.
如果你把中國人這個因素排除掉，那么是的。否則，不是。太多鄉(xiāng)下行為了，而且每個人都TMD抽煙。
xiao-cang
Likes: 4
Tokyo -- I do think it's the top city in the world with no competitors.
Seoul -- I visited once, and I felt it was just like a tier one or new tier 1 city in China. If it was not the Hangul on the streets, I would simply think I was in China.
Taipei -- they really need to work on the old buildings.
Singapore -- personally I just dislike tropical style, but the city seemed fine to me.
東京——我確實認為它是世界上沒有競爭對手的頂級城市。
首爾——我去過一次，感覺就像中國的一個一線或新一線城市。如果街上不是韓文，我簡直會以為自己在中國。
臺北——他們真的需要在舊建筑上下點功夫了。
新加坡——我個人只是不喜歡熱帶風格，但這個城市對我來說似乎還不錯。
Known_Stage4687
Likes: 2
I have to say the London tube and busses are the best I've experienced. It felt far more connected than Tokyo. That's all I have to add.
我必須說，倫敦的地鐵和公交是我體驗過最好的。感覺比東京的交通連接性強得多。我就補充這一點。
xiao-cang
Likes: 3
Oh yea London is my favorite western city. I've only stayed for 2 days but I could see how good it is. Much better than American cities LOL.
哦是的，倫敦是我最喜歡的西方城市。我只待了兩天，但我能看出它有多好。比美國城市好太多了，哈哈。
obxtive_Design_376
Likes: 1
6 years is a long time in terms of change in China, having been to Beijing and Shanghai and Tokyo in recent years (2024-2025), I would say that yeah they feel more advanced than Tokyo.
就中國的變化而言，6年是很長的時間。近年來（2023-2024年）我去過北京、上海和東京，我會說，是的，它們感覺比東京更先進。
Hobo_Robot
Likes: 1
Seoul feels like a less organized version of Shanghai.
Tokyo is awesome and is probably my favorite city in the world. Japan as a whole is way behind in internet/mobile/AI tech development though.
首爾感覺像一個組織得沒那么好的上海。
東京很棒，可能是我世界上最喜歡的城市。不過，日本作為一個整體，在互聯(lián)網(wǎng)/移動/人工智能技術(shù)發(fā)展方面遠遠落后。
Actual_Spread_6391
Likes: 1
It depends
Dalian was nice even though it stopped developing a long time ago, it felt on par with Tokyo
Beijing, not so much except the subway
這要看情況。
大連很不錯，盡管很久以前就停止發(fā)展了，但感覺和東京不相上下。
北京，除了地鐵，就沒那么好了。
Educational-Sea-9700
Likes: 1
Most of Modern day Tokyo was built 70 years ago. Most of Seoul like 50 years ago.
Most Chinese cities were built in the last 20 years and are still in development.
So of course there is a difference.
In 70 years, those Chinese cities will probably be like Tokyo in comparison to newer cities somewhere else.
現(xiàn)代東京的大部分是70年前建的。首爾大部分是50年前。
大多數(shù)中國城市是在過去20年里建的，并且仍在發(fā)展中。
所以當然有區(qū)別。
70年后，那些中國城市和別處更新的城市相比，大概就像現(xiàn)在的東京一樣。
Avokado1337
Likes: 1
In think the whole concept of technologically advanced cities are bs. It’s mostly just people posting pictures of fancy lighting arrangements and thinking it’s some major scientific breakthrough… All the cities you mention are highly digitised and has great public transport, that is about as advanced as it gets
我認為“技術(shù)先進城市”的整個概念都是扯淡。大多數(shù)時候只是人們發(fā)一些花哨燈光布置的照片，就以為是什么重大科學突破……你提到的所有城市都高度數(shù)字化，有很棒的公共交通，這差不多就是“先進”的極限了。
KMS_Tirpitz
Likes: 1
Never been to Korea, but been to Osaka and Tokyo. Idk what would be commonly accepted as advanced since it is so broad and subjective, but personally comparing with Shenzhen I do feel that infrastructure wise Shenzhen is more "advanced" than Japan. But that is probably because Japan built its things decades ago while Shenzhen is relatively new city and newer things tends to be more advanced.
One part I didn't really like about Japan was their still reliance on cash. I have mostly been able to get by with a credit card but some places still only took cash, it was a hassle bringing a bunch of coins which was heavy
沒去過韓國，但去過大阪和東京。我不知道什么才被普遍認為是先進，因為這個概念太寬泛和主觀了。但就我個人而言，和深圳比較，我確實覺得在基礎(chǔ)設(shè)施方面，深圳比日本更“先進”。但這可能是因為日本的東西是幾十年前建的，而深圳是一個相對較新的城市，新東西往往更先進。
我不太喜歡日本的一點是他們?nèi)匀灰蕾嚞F(xiàn)金。我大部分時候可以用信用卡，但有些地方仍然只收現(xiàn)金，帶一堆沉重的硬幣很麻煩。